I think you need to remember what he saw. What many Israelis saw.
The clips came in. It was like 9/11—only worse. Women raped. Breasts cut. Heads chopped off.
A baby cut from a pregnant woman’s body. A man’s head severed with a shovel. An eye pierced with a gun.
The two ginger babies, the Bibas, with their mother. The fear on her face still haunts me.
Then the texts started. Family. Two second cousins at the Nova Festival—injured. Their friends kidnapped.
One came back on Monday, in the last release of hostages. His name was Ochana.
Another young second cousin—his best friend kidnapped. Her name was Eden Yerushlami. A beautiful girl. Held for months. Just to be murdered by Hamas with seven other hostages.
People talked about leveling Gaza. Writing these lines makes me want to scream. I couldn’t sleep. Could not function for months. Traumatized.
Haliva saw it with his own eyes. Not clips. Not videos. His own eyes. He smelled death. Saw the bodies. And also knew he failed.
Do you remember 9/11? I do. We bombed the countries we thought hid Bin Laden.
October 7th in America? 41,000 dead in one day. About 8,500 kidnapped. No president—even Obama—would let that slide. Mexico? Flattened in days.
Haliva failed, yes. His assessment was dead wrong. But he spoke from raw pain. Just as anyone would if it happened to their country.
Facts matter. Israel did not kill indiscriminately. Did not carpet-bomb. Did not target children. Did not do what America, England, or Canada did in war.
The IDF warned people. Leaflets. Calls. Texts. We don’t put people on trial for what they said in pain. Only for what they did.
Israel fights savages. People who enter homes. Torture children in front of their parents. Tie them up. Burn them alive. Civilians joined—looting, raping, burning. They don’t deserve a text message.
Go on Telegram. Watch what Hamas posted. Images replaying in my mind for weeks.
Haliva saw it with his own eyes. Not clips. Not videos. His own eyes.
I’m sure the Americans who arrived at the concentration camps said things worse than Haliva.
I'm sure that our own military officials arriving to the 9/11 sites said worse things.
No one was there to record them. No one to smear their name.
Actually, I gave facts, my knowledge of what happened there is from friends and family and from what I have seen with my own eyes. It’s you that are not using any fact but just repeating a line labeling anything “Zionist propaganda” is kind of lame.
Proven by whom? There are still investigations. One example shows the white Toyotas full of terrorists that were not shot because the pilot was not sure what he saw. And his commanders did not give him the order to shoot them.
I speak, read, and write Hebrew. Trust me, I want it all to come to light.
What I can’t stand is people pretending they are for the truth, while actually their agenda is they want to blame the Jews.
I'm part Jewish but I go with Truth where-ever it takes me. There have many Exposes on October 7th including by IDF soldiers and officers as well as frame by frame breakdowns of the "proof" many of which were Ai generated. The hundreds of cars destroyed like it was the Lahaina Fires were not done with AK47's but Apache Helicopters.
This happened on most surveilled area of the globe? BS!
Netanyahu is an admitted Financial Founder of Hamas.
Your communicating with a dumb goy here. I have studied the Middle East and Jewish religious texts for 4 decades and I know what their admitted to plan is.
"The Iron Wall – We cannot offer any adequate compensation to the Palestinian Arabs in return for Palestine. Therefore, there is no likelihood of any voluntary agreement being reached." Berlin 1923 Jabotinsky
Both of you passionate fools talk of genesis of religious and political settlement. You are both correct in your own context, but both lame, your Achilles Heel’s are obvious.
You both talk about close connections, and studying conflict for decades. Oh, you know you know the truth, yet neither have ever been in the front, center, and end of actual war and have no idea that it is you who feeds it with your vague opinionated borrowed “facts”, either from a solitude writer close to the “combat zone” who may have completely misconstrued facts, or from a globalist media whitewash.
You both hold up participants and the savaged as if they were tennis balls about to be served up, and in that manner you are both not just arguing for argument sake, except, your serve is obviously intended to kill the opponent. You are both your own protagonist of imaginative platitudes, virtue signaling over graveyards so you can author-ize winners and losers.
You both are an actual combat veterans worst nightmare.
You are so enveloped by emotion you don’t even realize you are lying, and worse, don’t care, exactly what starts wars.
Being partly Jewish doesn’t give you any more credence in my book. Do you speak the language? Did you serve in the military—any military?
AI-generated images? I don’t trust them. AI might fix grammar, but it only knows what you feed it.
One thing we agree on: follow the truth wherever it leads.
Haliva should stand trial in Israel. Not for talking about leveling Gaza. But for failing to read the situation. For letting civilians and soldiers be butchered in the most horrific ways. He’s not the only one.
People are demanding the truth.
There are thousands—maybe hundreds of thousands—of images and videos of the massacre, spread across phones and platforms.
I’ve followed this from the beginning. I speak the language. Some of my friends speak Arabic. I know the ground.
This post is inaccurate. Liable. Haliva was not fired. He resigned. He probably should have been held accountable before he resigned.
You studied Judaism or Torah? Did you study Islam and its sects too? or just the game the British and French played creating countries and inventing borders, probably while drunk.
June 18th 2024 Rachel Maddow on Fauci. The segment on Fauci starts with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene telling him in a congressional hearing that he is guilty of crimes against humanity and that he belongs in prison. https://rebeccaculshawsmith.substack.com/p/rachel-maddow-on-fauci -- December 1st 2023 A Crime Against Humanity... “This is in my opinion, the worst thing that’s ever happened to our country in my lifetime in the world, and the government’s role cannot be denied,” — Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene on C-19-Vaxx https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-magic-moment/ -- Nuremberg 2.0 International Public Grand Jury vs Covid Measures & Crimes Against Humanity https://nurembergtrials.net
I think that this is kind of cheap gossip quoting Israeli Media.
About the so called Vaccine, I hate it, I think it was a crime, I think that he wanted to bring Pfizer to Israel, he wanted to have them open a facility there, bring jobs. I cannot believe that he knew how bad it was going to be.
And just like Trump, they are surrounded by people that are connected and benefit from Pharma and form Water.
Trump and Netanyahu need to face war crimes trials and be punished like the Nazis after WWII. They are committing a genocide in Gaza where they have systematically murdered perhaps 600,000 innocent civilians. Mostly women and children. They are brutal psychopaths who need to be put away.
Makes me feel sick. So much rabid hatred that rises up in the heart of man against man. If man goes on in life without God , and not regarding His laws, and commandments, and His Son, then he becomes quite sick and despicable. Men made in Gods image, but living their lives without God. Forgetting there will be a Judgement day. If we are not judging ourselves and how bad we could be without Gods morals laws and rights over us, we could become utterly cruel, depraved and lawless. Makes me think of the Poem, Monkeys Disgrace....."sure man descended but he didnt descend from us."
So many innocent persons suffer because of cruel and wicked leaders and commanders. Prayers for Godly and righteous leaders, both here and abroad. In Israel, the middle east, and many countries in uproar.
I wonder if General Haliva meant to subtract the lives of Israelis who were killed by the IDF from the calculation of the total Palestinians he wanted dead. That was roughly half the total, AFAIK.
Thank you for this interesting story and Exposure John!
What most everyone misses in the comments, in the Media, in government is the real core problem: Zionist Supremacy, similar to Nazi Supremacy which the Nazi's borrowed some (not all) from Zionist Supremacy. Read the Torah and Talmud and this Psychotic Racist Murderous Indoctrination from virtually birth demonstrates this Horrific Mindset! Just listen to Netanyahu and his Ministers and Generals (as You noted here) Biblical or Talmudic proclamations - This is the Problem! Christian Zionists are as bad and usually very ignorant!
The Irish, Italians, Polish, Filipinos etc. don't have a Supremacist Mentality which they can do whatever they want to other people including Murder, Theft and Rape!
Our the Palestinians blameless? Of course not but they are THE OCCUPIED BY THE ZIONIST OCCUPIERS AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO FIGHT BACK BY ALMOST ANY MEANS! THINK OF THE WARSAW GHETTO IN WWII!
Many of the most Courageous critics of the Zionists are Jewish such as: Finkelsten, Mate Father and Son, Pappe, Cohen and so many more.
Zionist Propaganda has been exposed and they have Zero high ground!
Not all Jews are Zionists and Not all Zionists are Jews!
"Arabs are not fools. To imagine Arabs will voluntarily consent to the realization of Zionism in return for the moral and material convenience which Jewish colonists brings is childish, which has contempt for the Arabs, it means they despise the Arab race, which they regard as a corrupt mob that can be bought and sold and are willing to give up their fatherland for a good railway system. In an Arab paper ‘El Carmel’ it said Zionists are concerned with one thing only that Arabs should not hinder their immigration…We all demand there should be an iron wall. Yet we keep spoiling our own case by talking about agreement." Jabotinsky "Dr. Krojanker's argument runs that for Zionism, liberalism is the enemy, it is also the enemy for Nazism ergo Zionism which should have much sympathy and understanding for Nazism of which antisemitic is probably a fleeting accident." Harry Sacher's Review
Actually I can understand and identify with this sentiment from Commander Haliva. And, he is certainly not comparable to the Nazi commander-- their forces were the aggressors, started the war(not considering WW I war reparations).
On the other hand, the Israeli's were attacked, savaged, raped, tortured, children killed. . . for no apparent reason and with no warning. Outright mass murder.
On the other hand if there IS any truth to the conspiracy theory the Israeli military defenses pulled back, allowed the incursion, making this mini-holocaust possible for the Palestinian hoard, it immediately becomes despicable, moreso yet, if HE was aware of the plan.
From what I've read and heard, including from people like war correspondent Michael Yon, there's no question there was a stand down; many Israelis believe so too. How else do you explain a seven hour response when an attack helicopter gets there in 25 minutes? Moving the music festival right up to the fence, withdrawing forces? Burning out cars and homes with helicopter gunship weapons Hamas didn't have? Bibi says he'll allow an investigation (i.e., a Warren Report or 9/11 Commission Report) after the forever war ends.
Israel has a deep state that made sure soldiers do as they are told—or risk going to jail. The rules about opening fire are extremely strict: you shoot only if your life is in danger.
There were reports of soldiers seeing civilian Gazans approaching and not shooting because they weren’t being fired upon. Those civilians were participating in what could only be described as a “celebration of the massacre.”
That is basically my conclusion too but I simply did not want to have so much hubris in my statement that it could put folks "off". The idea of doing this is so unconscienable(sp?)-- beyond understanding.
The psychological effects on the population of Israel when this is completely understood. . . ?! devastating.
Why couldn't the billionaires Hamas have fought fair, they did not, they committed heinous acts. I don't think the average Gazan can go against Hamas for fear of their life.
Got the book you recommend below, interesting. Prose sounds like an everyday American. . . up to Chap 9. . . seems that the strategy developed by the Mullahs in Iran of indoctrination of children into hateful humans did the work of Satan quite efficiently.
These Muslim leaders are truly Satan's spawn, wherever they are: Elites in Qatar or Hamas in the streets. This is similar to what the Japanese cult did to their entire population before WWII. . . and who knows how many other genocidal cults in history for eons.
The army did not receive the right orders — in fact, they hardly received any. No one, especially in the high command, managed the situation.
I’m not trying to defend Bibi. I’m angry at his handling of the coronavirus. But someone in the intelligence community decided not to wake him up, not to sound the warning.
Intel estimated that Hamas thought Israel was about to attack, so they decided to stay away from the fence.
They never told him because they feared he would order a preemptive strike — so they effectively told the army not to go to the fence.
I heard a former Israeli internal security person talk the other day. He said the citizens understood what was happening better than the army did. Not talking about the simple soldiers but the high command.
The truth will come out, and I hope heads will roll.
Truth would be nice, not only on this issue, but I'm not hopeful. Anyway, I'm surprised my memory was as good as it was, as in the first few minutes of the following interview, Yon gives the estimated 10/7 helicopter response time as 25-30 minutes:
And by the way, stand downs aren't unique to Netanyahu or the IDF. It's pretty well understood now that the Roosevelt administration, having broken Japanese code, knew the Japanese fleet was on its way to Hawaii, but took steps to keep the commanders at Pearl out of the loop. Politicians and militaries don't hesitate to sacrifice a pawn to get the public on board for a war they didn't want.
Consumed by what happened. I listened to a dad who was looking for his son, who he thought was dead, stopping a truck full of dead bodies, begging them to let him look.
Bags upon bags with people who were mutilated. Missing body parts.
It’s something that can never leave you. The majority of the country has ptsd.
Haliva absolutely does not represent the majority of Israelis or the government's policy. Hamas in its charter calls for the destruction of the state of Israel which means the killing of every Jew and probably many Arab Moslems in the process. Israel sends food to Gaza. This is like sending food to the Germans during World War II. Would you have supported that?
Israel could have finished the war in a few hours if it wanted to and obliterated all of Gaza which was handed over to them in 2005. Hamas was overwhelmingly elected and has controlled Gaza for almost 2 decades. That was the only election.
There has been no genocide in Gaza. See this link.
Clinton and Israel offered Arafat 94% of the West Bank with 4% of Israel with East Jerusalem as its capitol. Arafat rejected the plan culminating in the second intifada which killed hundreds of Israelis in terror attacks. Former President Bill Clinton talks about it starting at 5:35 of this clip.
I don't think the USA should give any money to Israel. I am an American Jew born and raised in the USA, who holds dual citizenship with Israel. My best friends in this life of 76 years are all Christians who I met at Columbia University in the fall of 1967. Two of whom are sadly deceased. There are wonderful people of all faiths as well as despicable ones.
Israel is not an apartheid state. Arab Moslems attend universities, work in Israeli hospitals, and are represented in Israel's governing body the Knesset. You can read this.
I don't think Israel has a very good chance of survival. I wanted to move with our family who are all dual citizens to the USA over 25 years ago, but because our daughter had cancer as a child, I was afraid she would be denied health insurance coverage with a preexisting condition. When she was being treated for cancer, a Palestinian teenager was in the same room with her. Israel paid for that girl's treatment which probably cost a million dollars.
I don't know what you think of this country. Maybe you think Israel has no right to exist, or we should all die for the killing of Jesus. I have read numerous passages in what is called the Old Testament, King James version, that have been heavily distorted from the original Hebrew.
Tovia Singer gives a very detailed analysis in his two volume set Let's Get Biblical which I suggest you read.
I don’t know about the subject you’re addressing, but they certainly have forgotten all about the Nuremberg principles against medical experimentation without informed consent!
June 18th 2024 Rachel Maddow on Fauci. The segment on Fauci starts with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene telling him in a congressional hearing that he is guilty of crimes against humanity and that he belongs in prison. https://rebeccaculshawsmith.substack.com/p/rachel-maddow-on-fauci -- December 1st 2023 A Crime Against Humanity... “This is in my opinion, the worst thing that’s ever happened to our country in my lifetime in the world, and the government’s role cannot be denied,” — Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene on C-19-Vaxx https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-magic-moment/ -- Nuremberg 2.0 International Public Grand Jury vs Covid Measures & Crimes Against Humanity https://nurembergtrials.net
While the “left” has diluted the lessons of that place & time, I personally am getting tired of the ‘Deja Vu all over again’ treadmill & this is applicable to everything. Nothing has changed! Irrespective of justification, all the Jews have done is to insure another Oct 7th & that has nothing to do with the Palestinians/Hamas/Arabs/Muslims. Forget ‘he who lives by the sword will die by the sword - “Exodus 21:23-25: This passage discusses the principle of "an eye for an eye," emphasizing that violent actions lead to retribution. It reflects the idea that those who inflict harm can expect harm in return.” In the thousands of years of Hebrew/Jewish existence have the Jews ever eliminated their “enemies”? When you are a hammer, the world is a nail.
Military personnel are paid to fight. They are not paid to think, and sometimes they say stupid things. If you want to blame somebody for the mess in the Middle East, I vote for Jimmy Carter. The PLO was ready to overthrow King Hussein of Jordan and establish a Palestinian state in a country that was already two-thirds Palestinian. Carter bailed him out....and here we are.
June 18th 2024 Rachel Maddow on Fauci. The segment on Fauci starts with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene telling him in a congressional hearing that he is guilty of crimes against humanity and that he belongs in prison. https://rebeccaculshawsmith.substack.com/p/rachel-maddow-on-fauci -- December 1st 2023 A Crime Against Humanity... “This is in my opinion, the worst thing that’s ever happened to our country in my lifetime in the world, and the government’s role cannot be denied,” — Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene on C-19-Vaxx https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-magic-moment/ -- Nuremberg 2.0 International Public Grand Jury vs Covid Measures & Crimes Against Humanity https://nurembergtrials.net
Saul Bellow. Wow. I was aware of his presence during the short period I spend at U of Chicago and lived in Hyde Park. I concur with his assessment: "Bellow found Chicago vulgar but vital" WIKI Unlike you, I stayed away, feeling he was deep into the world I hoped to escape.
I think you need to remember what he saw. What many Israelis saw.
The clips came in. It was like 9/11—only worse. Women raped. Breasts cut. Heads chopped off.
A baby cut from a pregnant woman’s body. A man’s head severed with a shovel. An eye pierced with a gun.
The two ginger babies, the Bibas, with their mother. The fear on her face still haunts me.
Then the texts started. Family. Two second cousins at the Nova Festival—injured. Their friends kidnapped.
One came back on Monday, in the last release of hostages. His name was Ochana.
Another young second cousin—his best friend kidnapped. Her name was Eden Yerushlami. A beautiful girl. Held for months. Just to be murdered by Hamas with seven other hostages.
People talked about leveling Gaza. Writing these lines makes me want to scream. I couldn’t sleep. Could not function for months. Traumatized.
Haliva saw it with his own eyes. Not clips. Not videos. His own eyes. He smelled death. Saw the bodies. And also knew he failed.
Do you remember 9/11? I do. We bombed the countries we thought hid Bin Laden.
October 7th in America? 41,000 dead in one day. About 8,500 kidnapped. No president—even Obama—would let that slide. Mexico? Flattened in days.
Haliva failed, yes. His assessment was dead wrong. But he spoke from raw pain. Just as anyone would if it happened to their country.
Facts matter. Israel did not kill indiscriminately. Did not carpet-bomb. Did not target children. Did not do what America, England, or Canada did in war.
The IDF warned people. Leaflets. Calls. Texts. We don’t put people on trial for what they said in pain. Only for what they did.
Israel fights savages. People who enter homes. Torture children in front of their parents. Tie them up. Burn them alive. Civilians joined—looting, raping, burning. They don’t deserve a text message.
Go on Telegram. Watch what Hamas posted. Images replaying in my mind for weeks.
Haliva saw it with his own eyes. Not clips. Not videos. His own eyes.
I’m sure the Americans who arrived at the concentration camps said things worse than Haliva.
I'm sure that our own military officials arriving to the 9/11 sites said worse things.
No one was there to record them. No one to smear their name.
You are going by Zionist Propaganda not the facts!
Actually, I gave facts, my knowledge of what happened there is from friends and family and from what I have seen with my own eyes. It’s you that are not using any fact but just repeating a line labeling anything “Zionist propaganda” is kind of lame.
It has been proven the Israeli's with Apache Helicopters and such killed more of their own people than Hamas on Motorcycles and Hang gliders.
Proven by whom? There are still investigations. One example shows the white Toyotas full of terrorists that were not shot because the pilot was not sure what he saw. And his commanders did not give him the order to shoot them.
I speak, read, and write Hebrew. Trust me, I want it all to come to light.
What I can’t stand is people pretending they are for the truth, while actually their agenda is they want to blame the Jews.
Trust you? Are you kidding.
I'm part Jewish but I go with Truth where-ever it takes me. There have many Exposes on October 7th including by IDF soldiers and officers as well as frame by frame breakdowns of the "proof" many of which were Ai generated. The hundreds of cars destroyed like it was the Lahaina Fires were not done with AK47's but Apache Helicopters.
This happened on most surveilled area of the globe? BS!
Netanyahu is an admitted Financial Founder of Hamas.
Your communicating with a dumb goy here. I have studied the Middle East and Jewish religious texts for 4 decades and I know what their admitted to plan is.
"The Iron Wall – We cannot offer any adequate compensation to the Palestinian Arabs in return for Palestine. Therefore, there is no likelihood of any voluntary agreement being reached." Berlin 1923 Jabotinsky
Both of you passionate fools talk of genesis of religious and political settlement. You are both correct in your own context, but both lame, your Achilles Heel’s are obvious.
You both talk about close connections, and studying conflict for decades. Oh, you know you know the truth, yet neither have ever been in the front, center, and end of actual war and have no idea that it is you who feeds it with your vague opinionated borrowed “facts”, either from a solitude writer close to the “combat zone” who may have completely misconstrued facts, or from a globalist media whitewash.
You both hold up participants and the savaged as if they were tennis balls about to be served up, and in that manner you are both not just arguing for argument sake, except, your serve is obviously intended to kill the opponent. You are both your own protagonist of imaginative platitudes, virtue signaling over graveyards so you can author-ize winners and losers.
You both are an actual combat veterans worst nightmare.
You are so enveloped by emotion you don’t even realize you are lying, and worse, don’t care, exactly what starts wars.
Being partly Jewish doesn’t give you any more credence in my book. Do you speak the language? Did you serve in the military—any military?
AI-generated images? I don’t trust them. AI might fix grammar, but it only knows what you feed it.
One thing we agree on: follow the truth wherever it leads.
Haliva should stand trial in Israel. Not for talking about leveling Gaza. But for failing to read the situation. For letting civilians and soldiers be butchered in the most horrific ways. He’s not the only one.
People are demanding the truth.
There are thousands—maybe hundreds of thousands—of images and videos of the massacre, spread across phones and platforms.
I’ve followed this from the beginning. I speak the language. Some of my friends speak Arabic. I know the ground.
This post is inaccurate. Liable. Haliva was not fired. He resigned. He probably should have been held accountable before he resigned.
You studied Judaism or Torah? Did you study Islam and its sects too? or just the game the British and French played creating countries and inventing borders, probably while drunk.
Oh come on!
Well, John, how do you propose to eliminate the Jew hatred that has infected those who live in Gaza and perpetrated the Oct 7 massacre?
Oct 7th was officially orchestrated because the EU wanted to implement their Digital ID Passport.
June 18th 2024 Rachel Maddow on Fauci. The segment on Fauci starts with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene telling him in a congressional hearing that he is guilty of crimes against humanity and that he belongs in prison. https://rebeccaculshawsmith.substack.com/p/rachel-maddow-on-fauci -- December 1st 2023 A Crime Against Humanity... “This is in my opinion, the worst thing that’s ever happened to our country in my lifetime in the world, and the government’s role cannot be denied,” — Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene on C-19-Vaxx https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-magic-moment/ -- Nuremberg 2.0 International Public Grand Jury vs Covid Measures & Crimes Against Humanity https://nurembergtrials.net
exactly!
I think that this is kind of cheap gossip quoting Israeli Media.
About the so called Vaccine, I hate it, I think it was a crime, I think that he wanted to bring Pfizer to Israel, he wanted to have them open a facility there, bring jobs. I cannot believe that he knew how bad it was going to be.
And just like Trump, they are surrounded by people that are connected and benefit from Pharma and form Water.
Some more cheap gossip from 40 former top Israeli officials who were saying even in 2024 that Bibi had to go:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/middleeast/netanyahu-letter-israel-national-security-intl/index.html
Well, if the experts say it, who am I to argue?
Ask a “Never Bibi” voter. I get it. They hate the guy. But who would they choose instead? “Anyone but him.” That’s not a serious answer.
All those has-beens? They are responsible for the failures. One way or another.
Some cut the army to unrealistic numbers.
Some made sure soldiers weren’t ready.
Some came here and copied American left methods.
Some withdrew forces like cowards at night — leaving equipment and intelligence behind.
Most didn’t want to hear anything outside the box.
Should I go on…
Trump and Netanyahu need to face war crimes trials and be punished like the Nazis after WWII. They are committing a genocide in Gaza where they have systematically murdered perhaps 600,000 innocent civilians. Mostly women and children. They are brutal psychopaths who need to be put away.
Makes me feel sick. So much rabid hatred that rises up in the heart of man against man. If man goes on in life without God , and not regarding His laws, and commandments, and His Son, then he becomes quite sick and despicable. Men made in Gods image, but living their lives without God. Forgetting there will be a Judgement day. If we are not judging ourselves and how bad we could be without Gods morals laws and rights over us, we could become utterly cruel, depraved and lawless. Makes me think of the Poem, Monkeys Disgrace....."sure man descended but he didnt descend from us."
So many innocent persons suffer because of cruel and wicked leaders and commanders. Prayers for Godly and righteous leaders, both here and abroad. In Israel, the middle east, and many countries in uproar.
I wonder if General Haliva meant to subtract the lives of Israelis who were killed by the IDF from the calculation of the total Palestinians he wanted dead. That was roughly half the total, AFAIK.
Thank you for this interesting story and Exposure John!
What most everyone misses in the comments, in the Media, in government is the real core problem: Zionist Supremacy, similar to Nazi Supremacy which the Nazi's borrowed some (not all) from Zionist Supremacy. Read the Torah and Talmud and this Psychotic Racist Murderous Indoctrination from virtually birth demonstrates this Horrific Mindset! Just listen to Netanyahu and his Ministers and Generals (as You noted here) Biblical or Talmudic proclamations - This is the Problem! Christian Zionists are as bad and usually very ignorant!
The Irish, Italians, Polish, Filipinos etc. don't have a Supremacist Mentality which they can do whatever they want to other people including Murder, Theft and Rape!
Our the Palestinians blameless? Of course not but they are THE OCCUPIED BY THE ZIONIST OCCUPIERS AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO FIGHT BACK BY ALMOST ANY MEANS! THINK OF THE WARSAW GHETTO IN WWII!
Many of the most Courageous critics of the Zionists are Jewish such as: Finkelsten, Mate Father and Son, Pappe, Cohen and so many more.
Zionist Propaganda has been exposed and they have Zero high ground!
Not all Jews are Zionists and Not all Zionists are Jews!
i once heard Finkelstein say "there's no business like Shoah business." don't forget Dave Smith in the "Not all Jews are Zionists" category.
Good points Carolyn!
"Arabs are not fools. To imagine Arabs will voluntarily consent to the realization of Zionism in return for the moral and material convenience which Jewish colonists brings is childish, which has contempt for the Arabs, it means they despise the Arab race, which they regard as a corrupt mob that can be bought and sold and are willing to give up their fatherland for a good railway system. In an Arab paper ‘El Carmel’ it said Zionists are concerned with one thing only that Arabs should not hinder their immigration…We all demand there should be an iron wall. Yet we keep spoiling our own case by talking about agreement." Jabotinsky "Dr. Krojanker's argument runs that for Zionism, liberalism is the enemy, it is also the enemy for Nazism ergo Zionism which should have much sympathy and understanding for Nazism of which antisemitic is probably a fleeting accident." Harry Sacher's Review
Actually I can understand and identify with this sentiment from Commander Haliva. And, he is certainly not comparable to the Nazi commander-- their forces were the aggressors, started the war(not considering WW I war reparations).
On the other hand, the Israeli's were attacked, savaged, raped, tortured, children killed. . . for no apparent reason and with no warning. Outright mass murder.
On the other hand if there IS any truth to the conspiracy theory the Israeli military defenses pulled back, allowed the incursion, making this mini-holocaust possible for the Palestinian hoard, it immediately becomes despicable, moreso yet, if HE was aware of the plan.
From what I've read and heard, including from people like war correspondent Michael Yon, there's no question there was a stand down; many Israelis believe so too. How else do you explain a seven hour response when an attack helicopter gets there in 25 minutes? Moving the music festival right up to the fence, withdrawing forces? Burning out cars and homes with helicopter gunship weapons Hamas didn't have? Bibi says he'll allow an investigation (i.e., a Warren Report or 9/11 Commission Report) after the forever war ends.
Israel has a deep state that made sure soldiers do as they are told—or risk going to jail. The rules about opening fire are extremely strict: you shoot only if your life is in danger.
There were reports of soldiers seeing civilian Gazans approaching and not shooting because they weren’t being fired upon. Those civilians were participating in what could only be described as a “celebration of the massacre.”
That is basically my conclusion too but I simply did not want to have so much hubris in my statement that it could put folks "off". The idea of doing this is so unconscienable(sp?)-- beyond understanding.
The psychological effects on the population of Israel when this is completely understood. . . ?! devastating.
Why couldn't the billionaires Hamas have fought fair, they did not, they committed heinous acts. I don't think the average Gazan can go against Hamas for fear of their life.
Got the book you recommend below, interesting. Prose sounds like an everyday American. . . up to Chap 9. . . seems that the strategy developed by the Mullahs in Iran of indoctrination of children into hateful humans did the work of Satan quite efficiently.
These Muslim leaders are truly Satan's spawn, wherever they are: Elites in Qatar or Hamas in the streets. This is similar to what the Japanese cult did to their entire population before WWII. . . and who knows how many other genocidal cults in history for eons.
Read the book from Gaza to Tel Aviv. Very fast read and understand what is Gaza.
I should have it tomorrow.
Will check it out.
Many theories are being examined.
The army did not receive the right orders — in fact, they hardly received any. No one, especially in the high command, managed the situation.
I’m not trying to defend Bibi. I’m angry at his handling of the coronavirus. But someone in the intelligence community decided not to wake him up, not to sound the warning.
Intel estimated that Hamas thought Israel was about to attack, so they decided to stay away from the fence.
They never told him because they feared he would order a preemptive strike — so they effectively told the army not to go to the fence.
I heard a former Israeli internal security person talk the other day. He said the citizens understood what was happening better than the army did. Not talking about the simple soldiers but the high command.
The truth will come out, and I hope heads will roll.
Truth would be nice, not only on this issue, but I'm not hopeful. Anyway, I'm surprised my memory was as good as it was, as in the first few minutes of the following interview, Yon gives the estimated 10/7 helicopter response time as 25-30 minutes:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/0npGX5vZWv1I
I also remembered the story of a retired general who actually drove to the Gaza fight in time to help (haven't read the link, it's behind a paywall):
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/world/middleeast/general-ziv-hamas-israel.html
Finally, here's some of the general recrimination within Israel (the comments below the article are well worth reading):
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-844012
And by the way, stand downs aren't unique to Netanyahu or the IDF. It's pretty well understood now that the Roosevelt administration, having broken Japanese code, knew the Japanese fleet was on its way to Hawaii, but took steps to keep the commanders at Pearl out of the loop. Politicians and militaries don't hesitate to sacrifice a pawn to get the public on board for a war they didn't want.
I LIKED your comment but don't like what I am hearing.
very painful to hear truth sometimes.
thanks for your insight Nava. You, apparently, are "over there."
Consumed by what happened. I listened to a dad who was looking for his son, who he thought was dead, stopping a truck full of dead bodies, begging them to let him look.
Bags upon bags with people who were mutilated. Missing body parts.
It’s something that can never leave you. The majority of the country has ptsd.
Haliva absolutely does not represent the majority of Israelis or the government's policy. Hamas in its charter calls for the destruction of the state of Israel which means the killing of every Jew and probably many Arab Moslems in the process. Israel sends food to Gaza. This is like sending food to the Germans during World War II. Would you have supported that?
Israel could have finished the war in a few hours if it wanted to and obliterated all of Gaza which was handed over to them in 2005. Hamas was overwhelmingly elected and has controlled Gaza for almost 2 decades. That was the only election.
There has been no genocide in Gaza. See this link.
https://aish.com/israel-is-not-committing-genocide-in-gaza-bullet-point-explanation/
The Palestinians have rejected every peace plan starting from 1947
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
Clinton and Israel offered Arafat 94% of the West Bank with 4% of Israel with East Jerusalem as its capitol. Arafat rejected the plan culminating in the second intifada which killed hundreds of Israelis in terror attacks. Former President Bill Clinton talks about it starting at 5:35 of this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIcH4x0Xbe4
US ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee has said that in order to protect Gazans, Israel will sacrifice their own soldiers, many who have been killed.
Here he is talking about Israel and Gaza
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufi2ypuVEFk
I don't think the USA should give any money to Israel. I am an American Jew born and raised in the USA, who holds dual citizenship with Israel. My best friends in this life of 76 years are all Christians who I met at Columbia University in the fall of 1967. Two of whom are sadly deceased. There are wonderful people of all faiths as well as despicable ones.
Israel is not an apartheid state. Arab Moslems attend universities, work in Israeli hospitals, and are represented in Israel's governing body the Knesset. You can read this.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/arab-leader-israel-conversation-mansour-abbas
I don't think Israel has a very good chance of survival. I wanted to move with our family who are all dual citizens to the USA over 25 years ago, but because our daughter had cancer as a child, I was afraid she would be denied health insurance coverage with a preexisting condition. When she was being treated for cancer, a Palestinian teenager was in the same room with her. Israel paid for that girl's treatment which probably cost a million dollars.
The life of Yahya Sinwar the Hamas leader who planned the October 7 attacks was saved by Israel. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/20/middleeast/israeli-dentist-hamas-yahya-sinwar-intl
I don't know what you think of this country. Maybe you think Israel has no right to exist, or we should all die for the killing of Jesus. I have read numerous passages in what is called the Old Testament, King James version, that have been heavily distorted from the original Hebrew.
Tovia Singer gives a very detailed analysis in his two volume set Let's Get Biblical which I suggest you read.
https://www.amazon.com/Lets-Get-Biblical-Judaism-Christian/dp/0996091300
I could write a lot more, but this is enough for now.
Zionist Propaganda!
I don’t know about the subject you’re addressing, but they certainly have forgotten all about the Nuremberg principles against medical experimentation without informed consent!
June 18th 2024 Rachel Maddow on Fauci. The segment on Fauci starts with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene telling him in a congressional hearing that he is guilty of crimes against humanity and that he belongs in prison. https://rebeccaculshawsmith.substack.com/p/rachel-maddow-on-fauci -- December 1st 2023 A Crime Against Humanity... “This is in my opinion, the worst thing that’s ever happened to our country in my lifetime in the world, and the government’s role cannot be denied,” — Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene on C-19-Vaxx https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-magic-moment/ -- Nuremberg 2.0 International Public Grand Jury vs Covid Measures & Crimes Against Humanity https://nurembergtrials.net
While the “left” has diluted the lessons of that place & time, I personally am getting tired of the ‘Deja Vu all over again’ treadmill & this is applicable to everything. Nothing has changed! Irrespective of justification, all the Jews have done is to insure another Oct 7th & that has nothing to do with the Palestinians/Hamas/Arabs/Muslims. Forget ‘he who lives by the sword will die by the sword - “Exodus 21:23-25: This passage discusses the principle of "an eye for an eye," emphasizing that violent actions lead to retribution. It reflects the idea that those who inflict harm can expect harm in return.” In the thousands of years of Hebrew/Jewish existence have the Jews ever eliminated their “enemies”? When you are a hammer, the world is a nail.
Military personnel are paid to fight. They are not paid to think, and sometimes they say stupid things. If you want to blame somebody for the mess in the Middle East, I vote for Jimmy Carter. The PLO was ready to overthrow King Hussein of Jordan and establish a Palestinian state in a country that was already two-thirds Palestinian. Carter bailed him out....and here we are.
June 18th 2024 Rachel Maddow on Fauci. The segment on Fauci starts with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene telling him in a congressional hearing that he is guilty of crimes against humanity and that he belongs in prison. https://rebeccaculshawsmith.substack.com/p/rachel-maddow-on-fauci -- December 1st 2023 A Crime Against Humanity... “This is in my opinion, the worst thing that’s ever happened to our country in my lifetime in the world, and the government’s role cannot be denied,” — Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene on C-19-Vaxx https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-magic-moment/ -- Nuremberg 2.0 International Public Grand Jury vs Covid Measures & Crimes Against Humanity https://nurembergtrials.net
Saul Bellow. Wow. I was aware of his presence during the short period I spend at U of Chicago and lived in Hyde Park. I concur with his assessment: "Bellow found Chicago vulgar but vital" WIKI Unlike you, I stayed away, feeling he was deep into the world I hoped to escape.