Since the French Revolution, most violent regime changes have resulted in terrible, unforeseen consequences, including years of war and civil war that achieve nothing.
thank god for Mr Trump. says what he thinks and does what hesays. The world will one day acknowledge how he saved western civilization and certainly i hope will be saving us in the uk.
Quote of the Day: A murderous bombing campaign in Iran, continuing genocide in Palestine, serial aggression abroad, belligerent occupation of several countries, acts of transnational terrorism, repression at home, schemes to profit from murder and colonization, systematic coverup of the Mossad-Epstein operations, massive corruption of the public and private sectors across the West, sanctions against human rights defenders and international courts, attacks on international institutions, the dismantling of international law, mass surveillance of the rest of us, and a growing trail of blood and destruction around the globe.
The US-Israel Axis is the greatest threat facing humanity today. To deny this in the face of so much evidence is to either reveal your ignorance or to declare your complicity.
Craig Mokhiber, international human rights lawyer & former head of the UN Human Rights Council in NY who resigned in disgust after the UN refused to act against Israel's genocide of the Palestinians
So, the Islamists' mutual charters to eradicate (i.e., to kill) the Jews -- and the Islamists' and their followers' incessant efforts to do so -- is a Good Genocide? Just askin' . . .
Right, Kathy, and Israel will be better able to carry on with the genocide when the war turns Iran into another failed state, which is the main purpose of the war, apparently. Nobody should believe Trump when he says things will be better for the Iranians.
Covid should have taught everyone that the ruling billionaire class doesn't give a damn about humanity; on the contrary, they engineer mass cullings, be it through wars or injections of bioweapon WMDs. The Epstein files are further blatant evidence of exactly who these psychopaths are.
I don't know if the Iran action will turn out well or not, but it's already different. Comparisons with Iraq are strained, to say the least. Far different in the long stream of events leading up to it, and Trump said about as clearly and emphatically as he could that he's not doing what Bush did in Iraq.
He told the Iranians to take control of their government "when we're finished," that this is their only chance, and they should take it. Not stand by and stay out of the way while we invest trillions of dollars and send our service members to a shooting gallery that we hope you'll be kind enough not to participate in.
Again, there are certainly arguments for and against this action. But comparison with past actions, especially Iraq, is simply not dispositive.
John, brilliant again, in it simplicity and truth: you have not mentioned the Trump/Rubio, Israel catastrophic lie, fraud, that the US OF A is threatened by IRAN..Nothing ever so ludicrous of an excuse,. excpet this is what Hitler did to Sudetenland, the Romans did contantly, the ISrael's having been doing in West Band and genocide in Gaza...
Trump has terrified his syncophantic cabinets, who would have ordinarily told him, this act will destroy the midterms, will destroy 2028. But we knew this was coming after the appalling lie that Venezuela (only at most 8% of our drug problem) was a threat. Next it will be Cuba. He has crossed the Rubicon
I hate to say this, a trump supporter since 2015 in spades, but where is our Brutus. No doubt an Augustus will be next...
So noted. Burke was smart. So, if Burke so distinguished and dismissed the American Revolution from what Burke considered to be a bona fide regime change -- like, say, the French Revolution -- then far be it from me to disagree with him.
Also, though it is seldom mentioned, there was a short but very terrible, ugly "reign of terror" after the American revolution wherein anyone believed to have collaborated with or even just been sympathetic toward the British was persecuted, sometimes unto death.
You're right. Retribution is historically often par for the course in varying degrees in such matters of war. My understanding, however, is that many but not all of the British Loyalists chose to return to Great Britain rather than to deal with the overly zealous among the American Patriots at that time. And, the retribution against those Loyalists who were not actual enemy combatants following the defeat and ouster of Great Britain was FAR less a "reign of terror" than those similarly characterized as such and elsewhere situated (e.g., as in Europe) at that relevant time. And, as usual, there also seems to have been a lot of exaggeration -- reported on actual incidents or merely contrived in order to advance ideological agendas arising from and related to American history.
First, the people of Iran have chosen the heir of the monarch that was overthrown by the Islamic regime in the 70s so the USA is not choosing the new leadership merely scrapping the regime’s nuclear and other war making capabilities so the people of Iran can take back their country. There’s no occupation, no nation building, etc. Very different.
The removal of a ‘regime’ that would slaughter 30 to 60 thousand of it’s citizens for protesting is worth the risk. The removal of a regime that has, and would continue, to sponsor the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah and assorted other terrorist groups is worth risk. Whether that regime is a current threat to the US mainland is not the point. The murderous ideology that has characterised the mullah’s regime for 47 years calls for the elimination of the US ( and Israel). They could do lot of damage in future if not stopped. The US has enough problems with lunatic ‘democrat’ run states and cities doing their best to destroy it without the continual calls for its destruction by outside lunatics.
I agree that US regime change has almost always been disastrous. I have mixed feelings on the current actions.
Most of the time we have tried regime change, we wanted the change more than the people (We were trying to put in a pro-America puppet more than to help the people). I don't think that is true with Iran. They have been repeatedly trying to overthrow their government on their own and just need a little help. Also, the Persian people have long been supporters of democracy. (They would have a democracy now if the US had not helped Britain overthrow the duly elected President, to put the puppet Shaw in power so what became British Petroleum could continue to control Iran's oil.) Having a dictator in place led to the people's revolt, but the mullahs used that revolution to take over with an iron fist. I actually believe the Iranians want true freedom and are willing to do what is necessary to make it happen. That isn't true of most, or all, of the other places in which we meddled.
In almost every case, I have disagreed whole-heartedly with meddling in other countries, but I feel so bad for the Iranian people, there is a part of me that thinks this could be worthwhile. I guess only time will tell.
John's arguments have historical basis, but since we are post 9/11 lets just focus on Islamic countries--they are not psychologically capable of freedom which is why they are drawn to dictators. Your points about Persia not being Muslim offers a considerable chance they will be democratic, especially since not-too long-ago they tasted freedom.
That's a great list of foibles. These missteps ignored Thomas Jefferson's advice of "honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."
In an antique shop, there may be a sign saying "You break it, you buy it" -- indicating that the outcome of you messing around in someone else's backyard or neighborhood can often be considered to be your fault. It is better not to mess around in another's backyard or neighborhood.
It can be entangling.
But the world is a lot smaller than it used to be, and our "neighborhoods" are now adjacent. Fences that kept the neighbors out of our own backyard no longer accomplish that task. When they are already in your backyard or neighborhood, a new property emerges and wise old adages lose relevance.
No, not seriously. It was sarcasm. Yes, I am aware of the repressive regime there and in many other nations. It’s bad, and it’s getting worse. All I can do is pray for peace. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Every bad thing that has happened to Iran since the end of WW2, the wars, the dictators, the oppression, the invasions, the Mullahs, has all been orchestrated and manipulated by City of London, using their private military force, the U.S.
All because Iran kicked British Petroleum out of Iranian oil fields after WW2. So City of London, the financial headquarters of the Evil, had the U.S. overthrow that Iranian government and gave Iraq everything it needed to invade Iran. Forcing decades of war and oppression onto the Iranian people.
British Petroleum is coming for Iranian oil. And when the Iranians started building weapons, Trump imposed sanctions on them.
And when they persisted Trump bombed them.
Larry Johnson did a good outline titled:
"Iran Does Not Hate Americans… But it Has Legitimate Reasons to Do So"
John, I’m a fan, but you (crucially) forgot 1953 / CIA / Iran / Mossadegh, which has much to do with why bombs are dropping while I type this…!
Quite right, forgot about the obvious! Duly noted with thanks.
not a single country on this planet plans a regime change in USA.. Or wait, didn't it happen already?
thank god for Mr Trump. says what he thinks and does what hesays. The world will one day acknowledge how he saved western civilization and certainly i hope will be saving us in the uk.
Here is the other side of the coin from a lawyer:
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/freedom-falafels-saturday-february
Praying for peace and freedom for the people of Iran.
Quote of the Day: A murderous bombing campaign in Iran, continuing genocide in Palestine, serial aggression abroad, belligerent occupation of several countries, acts of transnational terrorism, repression at home, schemes to profit from murder and colonization, systematic coverup of the Mossad-Epstein operations, massive corruption of the public and private sectors across the West, sanctions against human rights defenders and international courts, attacks on international institutions, the dismantling of international law, mass surveillance of the rest of us, and a growing trail of blood and destruction around the globe.
The US-Israel Axis is the greatest threat facing humanity today. To deny this in the face of so much evidence is to either reveal your ignorance or to declare your complicity.
Craig Mokhiber, international human rights lawyer & former head of the UN Human Rights Council in NY who resigned in disgust after the UN refused to act against Israel's genocide of the Palestinians
So, the Islamists' mutual charters to eradicate (i.e., to kill) the Jews -- and the Islamists' and their followers' incessant efforts to do so -- is a Good Genocide? Just askin' . . .
Who is committing genocide? Israel
Well, then, what is that saying, e.g., ". . . some people's "genocide" is another's "self defense"? Or something like that.
Right, Kathy, and Israel will be better able to carry on with the genocide when the war turns Iran into another failed state, which is the main purpose of the war, apparently. Nobody should believe Trump when he says things will be better for the Iranians.
Covid should have taught everyone that the ruling billionaire class doesn't give a damn about humanity; on the contrary, they engineer mass cullings, be it through wars or injections of bioweapon WMDs. The Epstein files are further blatant evidence of exactly who these psychopaths are.
I don't know if the Iran action will turn out well or not, but it's already different. Comparisons with Iraq are strained, to say the least. Far different in the long stream of events leading up to it, and Trump said about as clearly and emphatically as he could that he's not doing what Bush did in Iraq.
He told the Iranians to take control of their government "when we're finished," that this is their only chance, and they should take it. Not stand by and stay out of the way while we invest trillions of dollars and send our service members to a shooting gallery that we hope you'll be kind enough not to participate in.
Again, there are certainly arguments for and against this action. But comparison with past actions, especially Iraq, is simply not dispositive.
John, brilliant again, in it simplicity and truth: you have not mentioned the Trump/Rubio, Israel catastrophic lie, fraud, that the US OF A is threatened by IRAN..Nothing ever so ludicrous of an excuse,. excpet this is what Hitler did to Sudetenland, the Romans did contantly, the ISrael's having been doing in West Band and genocide in Gaza...
Trump has terrified his syncophantic cabinets, who would have ordinarily told him, this act will destroy the midterms, will destroy 2028. But we knew this was coming after the appalling lie that Venezuela (only at most 8% of our drug problem) was a threat. Next it will be Cuba. He has crossed the Rubicon
I hate to say this, a trump supporter since 2015 in spades, but where is our Brutus. No doubt an Augustus will be next...
“What about” the American Revolutionary War? That Regime Change War seems to have been an Epic Success. So, there’s that.
Burke argued it wasn't a regime change, that George 3 was meddling in long established regime of N.American colonists
So noted. Burke was smart. So, if Burke so distinguished and dismissed the American Revolution from what Burke considered to be a bona fide regime change -- like, say, the French Revolution -- then far be it from me to disagree with him.
Also, though it is seldom mentioned, there was a short but very terrible, ugly "reign of terror" after the American revolution wherein anyone believed to have collaborated with or even just been sympathetic toward the British was persecuted, sometimes unto death.
You're right. Retribution is historically often par for the course in varying degrees in such matters of war. My understanding, however, is that many but not all of the British Loyalists chose to return to Great Britain rather than to deal with the overly zealous among the American Patriots at that time. And, the retribution against those Loyalists who were not actual enemy combatants following the defeat and ouster of Great Britain was FAR less a "reign of terror" than those similarly characterized as such and elsewhere situated (e.g., as in Europe) at that relevant time. And, as usual, there also seems to have been a lot of exaggeration -- reported on actual incidents or merely contrived in order to advance ideological agendas arising from and related to American history.
First, the people of Iran have chosen the heir of the monarch that was overthrown by the Islamic regime in the 70s so the USA is not choosing the new leadership merely scrapping the regime’s nuclear and other war making capabilities so the people of Iran can take back their country. There’s no occupation, no nation building, etc. Very different.
The removal of a ‘regime’ that would slaughter 30 to 60 thousand of it’s citizens for protesting is worth the risk. The removal of a regime that has, and would continue, to sponsor the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah and assorted other terrorist groups is worth risk. Whether that regime is a current threat to the US mainland is not the point. The murderous ideology that has characterised the mullah’s regime for 47 years calls for the elimination of the US ( and Israel). They could do lot of damage in future if not stopped. The US has enough problems with lunatic ‘democrat’ run states and cities doing their best to destroy it without the continual calls for its destruction by outside lunatics.
I agree that US regime change has almost always been disastrous. I have mixed feelings on the current actions.
Most of the time we have tried regime change, we wanted the change more than the people (We were trying to put in a pro-America puppet more than to help the people). I don't think that is true with Iran. They have been repeatedly trying to overthrow their government on their own and just need a little help. Also, the Persian people have long been supporters of democracy. (They would have a democracy now if the US had not helped Britain overthrow the duly elected President, to put the puppet Shaw in power so what became British Petroleum could continue to control Iran's oil.) Having a dictator in place led to the people's revolt, but the mullahs used that revolution to take over with an iron fist. I actually believe the Iranians want true freedom and are willing to do what is necessary to make it happen. That isn't true of most, or all, of the other places in which we meddled.
In almost every case, I have disagreed whole-heartedly with meddling in other countries, but I feel so bad for the Iranian people, there is a part of me that thinks this could be worthwhile. I guess only time will tell.
That being said, I can't say your logic is wrong.
Good rebuttal Christy.
John's arguments have historical basis, but since we are post 9/11 lets just focus on Islamic countries--they are not psychologically capable of freedom which is why they are drawn to dictators. Your points about Persia not being Muslim offers a considerable chance they will be democratic, especially since not-too long-ago they tasted freedom.
John,
That's a great list of foibles. These missteps ignored Thomas Jefferson's advice of "honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."
In an antique shop, there may be a sign saying "You break it, you buy it" -- indicating that the outcome of you messing around in someone else's backyard or neighborhood can often be considered to be your fault. It is better not to mess around in another's backyard or neighborhood.
It can be entangling.
But the world is a lot smaller than it used to be, and our "neighborhoods" are now adjacent. Fences that kept the neighbors out of our own backyard no longer accomplish that task. When they are already in your backyard or neighborhood, a new property emerges and wise old adages lose relevance.
Also read Dennis Kuvinichs unsparing look at this turn of events.. also on substack.
Thanks for providing that list. There are a few sane voices, but not enough.
Wouldn’t a regime change using voting machines be better than using violent means? It’s worked here at home.
Seriously, though, I pray for peace in the Middle East. 🙏🏼
Seriously? voting machines? Are you even aware of the repressive regime in power since 1979 that will not tolerate opposition?
No, not seriously. It was sarcasm. Yes, I am aware of the repressive regime there and in many other nations. It’s bad, and it’s getting worse. All I can do is pray for peace. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Every bad thing that has happened to Iran since the end of WW2, the wars, the dictators, the oppression, the invasions, the Mullahs, has all been orchestrated and manipulated by City of London, using their private military force, the U.S.
All because Iran kicked British Petroleum out of Iranian oil fields after WW2. So City of London, the financial headquarters of the Evil, had the U.S. overthrow that Iranian government and gave Iraq everything it needed to invade Iran. Forcing decades of war and oppression onto the Iranian people.
British Petroleum is coming for Iranian oil. And when the Iranians started building weapons, Trump imposed sanctions on them.
And when they persisted Trump bombed them.
Larry Johnson did a good outline titled:
"Iran Does Not Hate Americans… But it Has Legitimate Reasons to Do So"
https://larrycjohnson.substack.com/p/iran-does-not-hate-americans-but?