Forgiveness doesn't depend on the perpetrators actions. It's a act of will, to forgive because Jesus Christ forgave us while we were yet sinners. Erika's act of forgiveness was powerful and genuine.
You’re right that Jesus calls us to a forgiving *posture*—but he conditions a restored relationship on repentance. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him” (Luke 17:3–4).
And in Matthew 18:15–17, he lays out steps of correction where ongoing fellowship *definitely* depends on a repentant response.
So we keep our hearts free of bitterness (vengeance is God's), but full reconciliation happens only when there’s repentance.
For me as a Buddhist, Martin Luther King, Jr. described the dynamics of hatred best.
" “Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
Love does not exonerate and dismiss culpability. Just punishment must be exercised, but carrying hatred so deeply in the spiritual being creates King's allusion as hatred a force multiplier for destruction.
It is better to understand than to be understood. I look at all the serious mental cases in todays world...and blame it on our government. The government promoted the financial interests of the industry's and not the American people. I believe drugs (illegal and legal) affected the minds of many; the vaccines required to go to school or enter service. Plus, all the processed nutrient-poor food... robbed their brains of the ability to analyze and think. In addition, the government permitted curriculum changes in the school system, which de-emphasized the 3 R's; and its rote learning developed a nation of robots who could be easily manipulated.. In order to get back on course, the people must get rid of the causes that brought America to this point.
FOLKS YOU CAN COPY THIS AND SHARE FAR AND WIDE TO MSM/POLITICIANS etc!-------- CO'n'VID INQUIRIES!? ARE PEOPLE BEING BLOCKED FROM GIVING FACTS AND TRUTHS!?
On a personal level I have no proof that people have been blocked from giving statement and maybe asking questions etc!? If that has happened it would be no shock if people then went and reported elderly suspicious deaths to the police. Like wise with deaths from the POISON JABS!? That raises the question how are the police dealing with it?
One has to wonder is people have got together and may have lawyers working in the back ground on cases!? YES/NO?
You never see much in the MSM so have they been BOUGHT/GAGGED or what ever?
As it stands cover up of cover ups seems the way it is heading--YES/NO?
Is it time for people world wide to get together and start publishing facts and truths in alternative media. With all the EPSTIEN/ROYALS/TRUMP etc shenanigans going on it would not be a bad time to stick the boot into the SATANIC EVIL PERFIDIOUS SCROTES that have been riding rough shod over the people for far too long!
The US dollar debased, the lower interest Rates, and continuous over debt burden amounts to one thing only. Countries in decline to neo feudalism. And Middle Class wiped out on purpose. Will I forgive that??? NEVER.
With regard to the understandably variable opinions on the subject of forgiveness, I offer this bit, regarding the doctrine of some who demand "unconditional forgiveness" from Christians, regardless of the lack of repentance on the part of the violent murderer.
Here is the passage supporting my view, directly quoted from the KJV Bible, the Gospel According to Luke. (Luke 17:3): .... "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. {17:4} And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him." These words were attributed to Jesus, by Luke. Please note the condition of repentance Jesus spoke of.
Some today contend that forgiveness from Christians is mandatory for every sin, and for every sinner, in obedience to the commandments of Jesus, no matter if the offender fails to repent, or ask for forgiveness. I do not believe this contemporary doctrine is entirely Scriptural, for the reason stated.
I am inclined to believe that an unrepentant murderer should be executed with due diligence. He broke the commandments by committing murder, failing to repent, and showed no mercy. I rely upon the quoted verse in my opinion, and acknowledge that there are many other verses that can be relied upon to support a contrary opinion.
God expects us to forgive, as we have been forgiven. However, unrepentant Christians are fooling themselves if they believe they can continue to offend God, failing to ask for forgiveness, and failing to repent. It is my belief that forgiveness cannot be EXPECTED by the unrepentant, but yet can certainly be offered by the grace of the offended party. There is no duty for the Christian to forgive the unrepentant murderer, in my opinion. I may be wrong, if so, I apologize, and ask forgiveness. Please pray for me also.
Erika Kirk has indeed shown great grace by offering forgiveness to the murderer of her husband Charlie.
IF I WAS THE JUDGE in this case, with the responsibility for sentencing the assassin of Charlie Kirk, his ultimate fate would hinge upon HIS remorse or lack thereof for his evil deeds.
There were two sinners with Jesus when He was crucified... only one of them went to paradise on that day. The other was unrepentant.
Unless the assassin/s has/ve come to Mrs Kirk to confess and ask for forgiveness I think she's doing it all wrong. I prefer this interpretation...
"The bible does not tell us to forgive everybody that does us wrong. The bible tells us to forgive those who come to us and confess their wrongdoing, and ask for forgiveness. That is two totally different things. As Christians we are supposed to forgive others. How? According to scripture, as Christ forgives us. How does Christ forgive us? Scripture is extremely clear. Christ does not forgive us until we come to him and confess our sins, and ask him to forgive us."
I suspect poor Mrs Kirk was grandstanding a false virtue.
Just saying, I have found her incredibly difficult to watch, because so much in her performance/presentation is staged. It comes across inauthentically.
Amen! The memorial service was an amazing testimony. We are blessed with Charlie's example and how one man can strengthen God's and our earthly mission.
“I suppose it depends on whether the perpetrators are able to recognize their monstrousness and demonstrate a genuine desire to repent and ask for forgiveness.” I believe that forgiveness requires confession and repentance by the perpetrator. Forgive someone who does not seek forgiveness? No.
"...depends on whether the perpetrators are able to recognize their monstrousness and demonstrate a genuine desire to repent and ask for forgiveness.."
Did the French leave Spain voluntarily, or after a plaintive request couched in forgiveness, or after being fought back?
The raging libs today are unworthy citizens, for they reject the morality necessary for a thriving self-governance. Forgiveness is wasted upon such people, for they are savage and incapable of enlightened introspection, making them incapable of receiving and accepting it. Donate a dollar to a rock, and see if it is moved by your generosity; thus is forgiveness upon these people.
Forgiveness in the face of an onslaught is a horrid and disrespectful rejection of the gift of life--it is to be lived--and those who act to take it away are justly stopped before their success occurs. Anyone who chooses or preaches otherwise betrays the value of the gift of life, making the ultimate insult to the Giver of life.
As to hate, one does not necessarily hate the pests that wreck crops. One understands that nature is a constant, minor battle to live--much less thrive--and certain behaviors and tactics are fundamental to eking out an existence while under seige by nature's pests. So, one does not have to hate the coyote in order to protect his sheep. No, he merely protects his sheep and does so without emotion. But, he probably does not consciously forgive the lucky coyote that takes his prize sheep.
Equanimity, perhaps, unless the pain caused is so great as to be insurmountable. Forgiveness? Only if the perpetrator follows the threefold path to forgiveness: 1) Recognize they have done wrong; 2) Sincerely apologize to those harmed; 3) Devote themselves and their resources to making things as right as is humanly possible.
It is very well written. Michael McCann ends his article with the quote below, please note "the Community itself, not even yet adopted, serves as a bridge."
"I write down My notes of possibilities and come to the conclusion that all is
possible just now. It is a rare thing when higher faith travels the path with higher
unbelief; when blasphemy and glorification are in the same chorus; when fury
and tranquility give birth to joy. When misfortune is manifested as a sign of
success and when withdrawal serves as a sign of nearness, then the currents of
emanations of the luminaries are blended with the inner fires. Such a time
denotes a new cycle, and the Community itself, not even yet adopted, serves as a
bridge."
El Morya, New Era Community
This I know - there are 2 fronts that need to be taken to Win the War For The Future Of Life On Our Planet Earth Taking Place Now - GOD / GOOD vs evil .
One is Spiritual -The utilization of the Spiritual Warfare "Decree" Prayer Form as it is given to us, a piece here and a piece there, "not removed", from both Testaments of the Bible and as understood and practiced by those initiated in the practice of Decrees and in a form that is acceptable to the Religion employing The Spiritual Warfare "Decree" Prayer Form.
One with God in YOUR Heart Learn to Call Down the Fire of Almighty God, Who Knows All and Will Cut Loose and Set His People Free from the evil infesting Them and cleave the evil from Our Planet Earth and take it for Righteous Judgement, in accordance with The Laws of God before The Four and Twenty Elders
One is Material - The Establishment of The New Era Home Building Model for building New Era Community - high quality, low cost, energy efficient homes, free of the creation of interest bearing debt and protected from "speculative" forces thereby forever affordable.
Undertaken in the manner that is able to be rapidly adapted across Our World at a scale that is truely transformative.
Christians Learn to Decree. God Clear The Way so that I Can Help.
It is early days for Erica to forgive her children’s father’s slayer.
When one’s child or loved one is injured by perpetrators, their body initially experiences shock and then panic, before they begin to feel the immense pain of the physical effect of the assault and then the emotional effect envelops them, which causes a deep sadness for their loss. Trauma sets in on each flash of memory in their brain and shame and self blame ignites self hatred for allowing themselves to be assaulted.
They try and scrape the pain away from their body.
To watch one’s child or loved one in so much pain and injury causes extreme trauma for the parent or loved one.
I remember when I discovered what happened to my child, I wanted to harm her perpetrator.
I was so angry and in so much pain.
I prayed and prayed with my child through out the process of recovery, which took about two and half years.
During this period, I said many times, “If you’re angry, you have a right to be angry, bash that pillow as much as you want, and then ask God to take away your pain. And you must forgive yourself, it was not your fault, And you must forgive your perpetrator. God will serve him justice.”
Forgiveness is for sure part of the process for full recovery of one’s mental health, but it can’t be rushed and it doesn’t kick in instantly.
Erica has not had time to take in or process the overwhelming loss for her children or the trauma that they will endure on the violent nature of their father’s death.
Forgiveness doesn't depend on the perpetrators actions. It's a act of will, to forgive because Jesus Christ forgave us while we were yet sinners. Erika's act of forgiveness was powerful and genuine.
Thank you. Erika reinforced and witnessed her belief. All of us can Be a turning point.
Wm Giles - AMEN!
Victoria Holt - AMEN!
We forgive because we are called to do so by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, whether the perpetrators repent or not.
Thank you for your words. Erika is making the witness of how we can be turning point.. Rest in Peace CJK.
Japper - AMEN!
True Japper
You’re right that Jesus calls us to a forgiving *posture*—but he conditions a restored relationship on repentance. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him” (Luke 17:3–4).
And in Matthew 18:15–17, he lays out steps of correction where ongoing fellowship *definitely* depends on a repentant response.
So we keep our hearts free of bitterness (vengeance is God's), but full reconciliation happens only when there’s repentance.
It bears remembering that forgiveness frees the forgiver but does not absolve the forgiven of responsibility for their acts.
Their day of judgement will come .
For me as a Buddhist, Martin Luther King, Jr. described the dynamics of hatred best.
" “Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
Love does not exonerate and dismiss culpability. Just punishment must be exercised, but carrying hatred so deeply in the spiritual being creates King's allusion as hatred a force multiplier for destruction.
It is better to understand than to be understood. I look at all the serious mental cases in todays world...and blame it on our government. The government promoted the financial interests of the industry's and not the American people. I believe drugs (illegal and legal) affected the minds of many; the vaccines required to go to school or enter service. Plus, all the processed nutrient-poor food... robbed their brains of the ability to analyze and think. In addition, the government permitted curriculum changes in the school system, which de-emphasized the 3 R's; and its rote learning developed a nation of robots who could be easily manipulated.. In order to get back on course, the people must get rid of the causes that brought America to this point.
FOLKS YOU CAN COPY THIS AND SHARE FAR AND WIDE TO MSM/POLITICIANS etc!-------- CO'n'VID INQUIRIES!? ARE PEOPLE BEING BLOCKED FROM GIVING FACTS AND TRUTHS!?
On a personal level I have no proof that people have been blocked from giving statement and maybe asking questions etc!? If that has happened it would be no shock if people then went and reported elderly suspicious deaths to the police. Like wise with deaths from the POISON JABS!? That raises the question how are the police dealing with it?
One has to wonder is people have got together and may have lawyers working in the back ground on cases!? YES/NO?
You never see much in the MSM so have they been BOUGHT/GAGGED or what ever?
As it stands cover up of cover ups seems the way it is heading--YES/NO?
Is it time for people world wide to get together and start publishing facts and truths in alternative media. With all the EPSTIEN/ROYALS/TRUMP etc shenanigans going on it would not be a bad time to stick the boot into the SATANIC EVIL PERFIDIOUS SCROTES that have been riding rough shod over the people for far too long!
The US dollar debased, the lower interest Rates, and continuous over debt burden amounts to one thing only. Countries in decline to neo feudalism. And Middle Class wiped out on purpose. Will I forgive that??? NEVER.
Ummm, I'm not so convinced it was "that young man"...but whoever it was, she would forgive them too
With regard to the understandably variable opinions on the subject of forgiveness, I offer this bit, regarding the doctrine of some who demand "unconditional forgiveness" from Christians, regardless of the lack of repentance on the part of the violent murderer.
Here is the passage supporting my view, directly quoted from the KJV Bible, the Gospel According to Luke. (Luke 17:3): .... "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. {17:4} And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him." These words were attributed to Jesus, by Luke. Please note the condition of repentance Jesus spoke of.
Some today contend that forgiveness from Christians is mandatory for every sin, and for every sinner, in obedience to the commandments of Jesus, no matter if the offender fails to repent, or ask for forgiveness. I do not believe this contemporary doctrine is entirely Scriptural, for the reason stated.
I am inclined to believe that an unrepentant murderer should be executed with due diligence. He broke the commandments by committing murder, failing to repent, and showed no mercy. I rely upon the quoted verse in my opinion, and acknowledge that there are many other verses that can be relied upon to support a contrary opinion.
God expects us to forgive, as we have been forgiven. However, unrepentant Christians are fooling themselves if they believe they can continue to offend God, failing to ask for forgiveness, and failing to repent. It is my belief that forgiveness cannot be EXPECTED by the unrepentant, but yet can certainly be offered by the grace of the offended party. There is no duty for the Christian to forgive the unrepentant murderer, in my opinion. I may be wrong, if so, I apologize, and ask forgiveness. Please pray for me also.
Erika Kirk has indeed shown great grace by offering forgiveness to the murderer of her husband Charlie.
IF I WAS THE JUDGE in this case, with the responsibility for sentencing the assassin of Charlie Kirk, his ultimate fate would hinge upon HIS remorse or lack thereof for his evil deeds.
There were two sinners with Jesus when He was crucified... only one of them went to paradise on that day. The other was unrepentant.
Well said, David.
Unless the assassin/s has/ve come to Mrs Kirk to confess and ask for forgiveness I think she's doing it all wrong. I prefer this interpretation...
"The bible does not tell us to forgive everybody that does us wrong. The bible tells us to forgive those who come to us and confess their wrongdoing, and ask for forgiveness. That is two totally different things. As Christians we are supposed to forgive others. How? According to scripture, as Christ forgives us. How does Christ forgive us? Scripture is extremely clear. Christ does not forgive us until we come to him and confess our sins, and ask him to forgive us."
https://x.com/Biznitch1177/status/1953421440750940513
I suspect poor Mrs Kirk was grandstanding a false virtue.
Just saying, I have found her incredibly difficult to watch, because so much in her performance/presentation is staged. It comes across inauthentically.
It would be better if she said she was ready to forgive, should the assassin come to her to ask for it.
I think that what she's modelling is harmful and emotionally damaging.
Amen! The memorial service was an amazing testimony. We are blessed with Charlie's example and how one man can strengthen God's and our earthly mission.
“I suppose it depends on whether the perpetrators are able to recognize their monstrousness and demonstrate a genuine desire to repent and ask for forgiveness.” I believe that forgiveness requires confession and repentance by the perpetrator. Forgive someone who does not seek forgiveness? No.
Hi, so no discussion on all the A.I. generated videos nor anomalies of the incident? I'm simply stunned...and saddened. I dislike hate too, and I believe in truth. Good evening. https://moniquelukens.substack.com/p/i-believed-til-i-didnt-the-disinformation
"...depends on whether the perpetrators are able to recognize their monstrousness and demonstrate a genuine desire to repent and ask for forgiveness.."
Did the French leave Spain voluntarily, or after a plaintive request couched in forgiveness, or after being fought back?
The raging libs today are unworthy citizens, for they reject the morality necessary for a thriving self-governance. Forgiveness is wasted upon such people, for they are savage and incapable of enlightened introspection, making them incapable of receiving and accepting it. Donate a dollar to a rock, and see if it is moved by your generosity; thus is forgiveness upon these people.
Forgiveness in the face of an onslaught is a horrid and disrespectful rejection of the gift of life--it is to be lived--and those who act to take it away are justly stopped before their success occurs. Anyone who chooses or preaches otherwise betrays the value of the gift of life, making the ultimate insult to the Giver of life.
As to hate, one does not necessarily hate the pests that wreck crops. One understands that nature is a constant, minor battle to live--much less thrive--and certain behaviors and tactics are fundamental to eking out an existence while under seige by nature's pests. So, one does not have to hate the coyote in order to protect his sheep. No, he merely protects his sheep and does so without emotion. But, he probably does not consciously forgive the lucky coyote that takes his prize sheep.
Equanimity, perhaps, unless the pain caused is so great as to be insurmountable. Forgiveness? Only if the perpetrator follows the threefold path to forgiveness: 1) Recognize they have done wrong; 2) Sincerely apologize to those harmed; 3) Devote themselves and their resources to making things as right as is humanly possible.
The Second Coming
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
William Butler Yeats
A Friend used this quote to start an article he wrote in 2012 titled "The Spiritual Crisis of the Twenty-first Century" By Michael McCann it is here https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#sent/FMfcgxSBWGNDftfnLFXfjtFfnWHvQnnG?projector=1&messagePartId=0.1
It is very well written. Michael McCann ends his article with the quote below, please note "the Community itself, not even yet adopted, serves as a bridge."
"I write down My notes of possibilities and come to the conclusion that all is
possible just now. It is a rare thing when higher faith travels the path with higher
unbelief; when blasphemy and glorification are in the same chorus; when fury
and tranquility give birth to joy. When misfortune is manifested as a sign of
success and when withdrawal serves as a sign of nearness, then the currents of
emanations of the luminaries are blended with the inner fires. Such a time
denotes a new cycle, and the Community itself, not even yet adopted, serves as a
bridge."
El Morya, New Era Community
This I know - there are 2 fronts that need to be taken to Win the War For The Future Of Life On Our Planet Earth Taking Place Now - GOD / GOOD vs evil .
One is Spiritual -The utilization of the Spiritual Warfare "Decree" Prayer Form as it is given to us, a piece here and a piece there, "not removed", from both Testaments of the Bible and as understood and practiced by those initiated in the practice of Decrees and in a form that is acceptable to the Religion employing The Spiritual Warfare "Decree" Prayer Form.
One with God in YOUR Heart Learn to Call Down the Fire of Almighty God, Who Knows All and Will Cut Loose and Set His People Free from the evil infesting Them and cleave the evil from Our Planet Earth and take it for Righteous Judgement, in accordance with The Laws of God before The Four and Twenty Elders
One is Material - The Establishment of The New Era Home Building Model for building New Era Community - high quality, low cost, energy efficient homes, free of the creation of interest bearing debt and protected from "speculative" forces thereby forever affordable.
Undertaken in the manner that is able to be rapidly adapted across Our World at a scale that is truely transformative.
Christians Learn to Decree. God Clear The Way so that I Can Help.
It is early days for Erica to forgive her children’s father’s slayer.
When one’s child or loved one is injured by perpetrators, their body initially experiences shock and then panic, before they begin to feel the immense pain of the physical effect of the assault and then the emotional effect envelops them, which causes a deep sadness for their loss. Trauma sets in on each flash of memory in their brain and shame and self blame ignites self hatred for allowing themselves to be assaulted.
They try and scrape the pain away from their body.
To watch one’s child or loved one in so much pain and injury causes extreme trauma for the parent or loved one.
I remember when I discovered what happened to my child, I wanted to harm her perpetrator.
I was so angry and in so much pain.
I prayed and prayed with my child through out the process of recovery, which took about two and half years.
During this period, I said many times, “If you’re angry, you have a right to be angry, bash that pillow as much as you want, and then ask God to take away your pain. And you must forgive yourself, it was not your fault, And you must forgive your perpetrator. God will serve him justice.”
Forgiveness is for sure part of the process for full recovery of one’s mental health, but it can’t be rushed and it doesn’t kick in instantly.
Erica has not had time to take in or process the overwhelming loss for her children or the trauma that they will endure on the violent nature of their father’s death.
It is very early days for speeches.
Jean