I was with Westinghouse Power 1970s, and we were told Admiral Rickover demanded Uranium so the commercial waste could then be reprocessed for weapons. That’s when I wanted to leave and find Thorium based alternatives. Only India was working with Thorium I was told -
I did not think spent fuel rods could be utilized in weaponry. Tons of the stuff is being stored all over the place especially now in underground caverns.
"You can't make weapons from Thorium, this is why the US dropped the technology."
That is absolutely the reason it was dropped. For the United States, unipolarity is all that matters. Those who control this country are hegemonic, and if a policy does not further their goal, it will not be allowed.
I looked into MSR's and Thorium a long time ago and the tech has only gotten better. Now with modular designs and stronger materials, they can be decentralized and are remarkably safe. Ironically it will be AI's power needs that will push us back to nuclear power, at least until we develop fusion or zero point energy.
It didn't surprise me in the least that China picked it up to replace coal fired plants, the CCP is nothing if not keen on what is a efficient path to dominance and independence. Meanwhile, our gov't is crippled by self-serving sociopaths and groups of handwringing, pearl clutching hystericals to whom a reasoned argument is anathema.
It's not that they copycat high end watches and bags - they actually manufacture them for the cost of a few hundred dollars. These are shipped to France, Switzerland, New York, etc and sold for thousands. The luxury goods companies (Tiffany's etc) are simply making a killing pricing up Chinese manufactured goods
Very true....however I would not choose to live in a country where if you are in jail for a traffic violation or some civil infraction...your organs could be harvested and sold to the highest bidder. Ethan Gutmann documented this appalling practice in great detail-- see book THE SLAUGHTER I'll take the "hand wringing pearl clutchers" any day over robotic "doctors" who want my heart and liver....
There are probably not enough special interests getting filthy rich from this technology. Even though it is probably the safest way to utilize nuclear power today, in my eyes it is abandoned because it doesn't generate enough money.
I think it was in 2014 that Yale, if I remember correctly, made a statistical examination of the legislative process in Washington. Their conclusion was that "the wishes of the public had NO DISCERNIBLE INFLUENCE on what legislation was passed". However the success of lobbyists promoting laws was DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the amount of money they spent.
Yes, China has achieved a significant milestone in developing thorium-based nuclear technology. The TMSR-LF1, a 2 megawatt thermal (MWt) liquid-fueled thorium molten salt experimental reactor, achieved criticality on October 11, 2023, and reached full power operation on June 17, 2024. This marks the first successful operation of a thorium molten salt reactor since the U.S. Molten Salt Reactor Experiment in the 1960s .
The reactor, located in Wuwei, Gansu Province, is operated by the Shanghai Institute of Applied Physics (SINAP) under the Chinese Academy of Sciences. It utilizes a mixture of thorium and uranium-235 dissolved in molten salt, with graphite serving as a moderator. The design allows for operation at high temperatures (up to 650°C) and low pressure, enhancing safety and efficiency. Notably, the detection of protactinium-233 during operation indicates successful breeding of uranium-233 from thorium, a key objective of the project .
Building on this success, China plans to construct a 60 MWt (10 MWe) demonstration reactor by 2029, followed by a 400 MWt (168 MWe) commercial small modular reactor (SMR) by 2030. These future reactors aim to incorporate advanced features such as supercritical carbon dioxide turbines for electricity generation and high-temperature hydrogen production capabilities .
China's advancements position it at the forefront of thorium-based nuclear energy development, with potential implications for clean energy production and reduced nuclear waste. But don’t worry, we’ve got solar panels, wind, turbines, and carbon tax.
Isn’t it pathetic how Canadian media takes Party money and casually claims “we will all have electric cars in 10 years”, while skipping the absence of any reactor projects to power these cars?
friends of mine follow this topic; they said China has a 2MW reactor in the Gobi Desert; with plans to have a 10MW working by 2030; the enthusiasts feel the technology could allow multiple "small" units generating power; my friends told me one does not need to refine thorium; (whereas uranium refining is seemingly very costly): the chinese seem very patient; and willing to spend much time and money on this work; also seemingly China has very many STEM graduates, so many engineers and others to collaborate.
Whoever can produce the most abundant and cheap energy will dominate the globe. Looks like China. Thorium needs a neutron source for fission, so turning off the source will mean without irradiation the fission chain will halt, so much safer. Also, the small molten salt reactors are safer. The U.S. has enough Thorium to power the U.S. for a thousand years. There is less waste than from uranium, and it decays in a few hundred years. All good. However, how can we safely deal with the gamma rays produced in the fission reaction? How is China dealing with it?
Integral Fast Reactors were developed in the 80's and 90's. I believe that they used nuclear waste, u-238, as fuel. Sadly, the continued funding for the program was cancelled by vice-president Al Gore. Big Oil, Coal & Natural Gas didn't want IFR rectors or Thorium rectors or the new small molten salt Fisson reactors. I believe that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have a new design Nuclear Reactor under construction in Montana ?
IMHO solar is great for small scale application. However, they will never outperform nuclear projects, especially the thorium MSRs. And fusion is also on the horizon.
USA developed this technology. Did special interest group take control to decommission the reactors? Shame if this is the case. Come on Fed’s Let’s get moving on funding more of this safe source of energy !
While I cannot recall the scientists name at present, he lives inside a mountain though he built one of these and has been successfully using it almost at no cost for a decade. Yes it is viable but power utilities would not appreciate this technology used at scale...for obvious reasons.
You can't make weapons from Thorium, this is why the US dropped the technology.
I was with Westinghouse Power 1970s, and we were told Admiral Rickover demanded Uranium so the commercial waste could then be reprocessed for weapons. That’s when I wanted to leave and find Thorium based alternatives. Only India was working with Thorium I was told -
I did not think spent fuel rods could be utilized in weaponry. Tons of the stuff is being stored all over the place especially now in underground caverns.
"You can't make weapons from Thorium, this is why the US dropped the technology."
That is absolutely the reason it was dropped. For the United States, unipolarity is all that matters. Those who control this country are hegemonic, and if a policy does not further their goal, it will not be allowed.
Misspelled “Demonic”
"Misspelled “Demonic”
Where did you get the idea I was trying to spell demonic?
You're not getting the witty comment 😄
"You're not getting the witty comment 😄"
Oh, I thought about that, but didn't think anyone would try to be 'witty' about such a serious subject.
Perhaps a more appropriate response would have been: 'Not only hegemonic, but demonic as well'.
I believe it’s possible to build safe, neighborhood sized thorium reactors. This would make the electric grid as we know it today obsolete.
One thing is for sure, China is far in the lead.
I looked into MSR's and Thorium a long time ago and the tech has only gotten better. Now with modular designs and stronger materials, they can be decentralized and are remarkably safe. Ironically it will be AI's power needs that will push us back to nuclear power, at least until we develop fusion or zero point energy.
It didn't surprise me in the least that China picked it up to replace coal fired plants, the CCP is nothing if not keen on what is a efficient path to dominance and independence. Meanwhile, our gov't is crippled by self-serving sociopaths and groups of handwringing, pearl clutching hystericals to whom a reasoned argument is anathema.
Lets be realists about Chinese ambitions....
Yes they copy cat and pilfer CAD drawings and product lines of everything...
There still remains a 6 block long Copy Cat Row in Beijing of high end watches/purses.
But don't be confused, it's not Rickshaw and Bamboo things they now mass produce.
It's super sonic missiles, aircraft carriers, and submarines, along with new architectures.
It's not that they copycat high end watches and bags - they actually manufacture them for the cost of a few hundred dollars. These are shipped to France, Switzerland, New York, etc and sold for thousands. The luxury goods companies (Tiffany's etc) are simply making a killing pricing up Chinese manufactured goods
I've long said, you don't have to be original or ethical to win, you just have to be committed. The CCP are definitely highly committed.
Very true....however I would not choose to live in a country where if you are in jail for a traffic violation or some civil infraction...your organs could be harvested and sold to the highest bidder. Ethan Gutmann documented this appalling practice in great detail-- see book THE SLAUGHTER I'll take the "hand wringing pearl clutchers" any day over robotic "doctors" who want my heart and liver....
There are probably not enough special interests getting filthy rich from this technology. Even though it is probably the safest way to utilize nuclear power today, in my eyes it is abandoned because it doesn't generate enough money.
I think it was in 2014 that Yale, if I remember correctly, made a statistical examination of the legislative process in Washington. Their conclusion was that "the wishes of the public had NO DISCERNIBLE INFLUENCE on what legislation was passed". However the success of lobbyists promoting laws was DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the amount of money they spent.
Yes, China has achieved a significant milestone in developing thorium-based nuclear technology. The TMSR-LF1, a 2 megawatt thermal (MWt) liquid-fueled thorium molten salt experimental reactor, achieved criticality on October 11, 2023, and reached full power operation on June 17, 2024. This marks the first successful operation of a thorium molten salt reactor since the U.S. Molten Salt Reactor Experiment in the 1960s .
The reactor, located in Wuwei, Gansu Province, is operated by the Shanghai Institute of Applied Physics (SINAP) under the Chinese Academy of Sciences. It utilizes a mixture of thorium and uranium-235 dissolved in molten salt, with graphite serving as a moderator. The design allows for operation at high temperatures (up to 650°C) and low pressure, enhancing safety and efficiency. Notably, the detection of protactinium-233 during operation indicates successful breeding of uranium-233 from thorium, a key objective of the project .
Building on this success, China plans to construct a 60 MWt (10 MWe) demonstration reactor by 2029, followed by a 400 MWt (168 MWe) commercial small modular reactor (SMR) by 2030. These future reactors aim to incorporate advanced features such as supercritical carbon dioxide turbines for electricity generation and high-temperature hydrogen production capabilities .
China's advancements position it at the forefront of thorium-based nuclear energy development, with potential implications for clean energy production and reduced nuclear waste. But don’t worry, we’ve got solar panels, wind, turbines, and carbon tax.
Isn’t it pathetic how Canadian media takes Party money and casually claims “we will all have electric cars in 10 years”, while skipping the absence of any reactor projects to power these cars?
Completely agree.. America's gotta get back on the nuclear power track!
Plutonium production for weapons is the reason it was abandoned.
friends of mine follow this topic; they said China has a 2MW reactor in the Gobi Desert; with plans to have a 10MW working by 2030; the enthusiasts feel the technology could allow multiple "small" units generating power; my friends told me one does not need to refine thorium; (whereas uranium refining is seemingly very costly): the chinese seem very patient; and willing to spend much time and money on this work; also seemingly China has very many STEM graduates, so many engineers and others to collaborate.
Whoever can produce the most abundant and cheap energy will dominate the globe. Looks like China. Thorium needs a neutron source for fission, so turning off the source will mean without irradiation the fission chain will halt, so much safer. Also, the small molten salt reactors are safer. The U.S. has enough Thorium to power the U.S. for a thousand years. There is less waste than from uranium, and it decays in a few hundred years. All good. However, how can we safely deal with the gamma rays produced in the fission reaction? How is China dealing with it?
My understanding is that the Thorium reactors don’t produce bomb making material. So, a no-go.
Wind. Water. And solar can work on the micro level. Not grid. Nukes are great.
Follow the Patent trail. If the US used it for 25 years without problem then it probably wasn't boondoggily enough 🤷
Integral Fast Reactors were developed in the 80's and 90's. I believe that they used nuclear waste, u-238, as fuel. Sadly, the continued funding for the program was cancelled by vice-president Al Gore. Big Oil, Coal & Natural Gas didn't want IFR rectors or Thorium rectors or the new small molten salt Fisson reactors. I believe that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have a new design Nuclear Reactor under construction in Montana ?
Solar panels are a scam? they seem sucessful.
Where? On prime farm land? To be wiped out after the first hail storm...
Too much sunlight anyway, that is why the British government is spending billions to dim the sun with Bill Gates who loves you.
IMHO solar is great for small scale application. However, they will never outperform nuclear projects, especially the thorium MSRs. And fusion is also on the horizon.
When the power use can be just daytime, and the panels can be shielded from hail or wind damage.
USA developed this technology. Did special interest group take control to decommission the reactors? Shame if this is the case. Come on Fed’s Let’s get moving on funding more of this safe source of energy !
While I cannot recall the scientists name at present, he lives inside a mountain though he built one of these and has been successfully using it almost at no cost for a decade. Yes it is viable but power utilities would not appreciate this technology used at scale...for obvious reasons.